Why do I like James Martin over at Virginia Progressive? Because of comments like this, in response to Vince Thoms defense of the flying the Confederate battle flag:
Vince at Too Conservative says of the Confederate Flag, “People died defending the flag.”People died defending the swastika… Should they fly that proudly over Germany?
Heh.
Yes, I know the history of the Confederate flag. That history will always be a dual one. It was a defense of the indefensible that trampled states rights in its wake.
I remember an occasion where someone asked me to wear a Confederate flag lapel sticker. I instantly refused, and the gentleman was shocked. Forced to explain, I told him that no true Southerner would wear the emblem of the Confederacy.
Virginia is my home — Mother of Presidents and the Old Dominion herself. If one truly believed in “states rights”, then wear your state seal.
I fly the Virginia flag from my home proudly. Its past lives into the present. The Confederate battle flag is a reminder of noble ideas (states rights) being used for ignoble ends (the preservation of slavery).
That our forefathers did not have the moral courage to end slavery in the South should be a stark reminder to those who compromise on the moral questions of today. I wonder what symbols and ideas we will consider relics tomorrow?
Wow! Nice post, Shaun.
At the rate we’re going, the U.S. flag and America as one nation will be quaint relics in the not too distant future.
Shaun,
That was the most insightful comment on the Confederacy I have ever seen. Nice work.
Great post, Shaun.
Even posting trash that the confederate flag is like the swastika is beneath you Shaun.
One was fought under by millions of our American brothers , who had no fight in keeping slavery, but instead protecting their homes.
Another was used, and contrived for the sole purpose of bringing back a relic from the ancient Aryan race.
The entire use of the swastika by the Nazis was part of the propoganda by Minister Joseph Goebbels, and Heinrich Himler.
The Confederate flag has history in Christian tradition.
I thought that we were only allowed to wave the Mexican flag… did I miss something?
One was fought under by millions of our American brothers , who had no fight in keeping slavery, but instead protecting their homes.
That’s two mistakes in one sentence. First, they weren’t Americans. They’d seceded. Second, the idea that none of the soldiers of the Confederacy had any interest in maintaining slavery is just silly.
Thought I would make a post just so you could see my mug inset into a rebel flag. If you’ve never done so, click to enlarge on my profile.
The part of James’ argument that you posted is the only part that I agreed with. No, I don’t own a confederate flag, but I can understand why some (like TC) do. I’m proud of my Southern Heritage, and while I do feel sorry that our Southern Leaders of the time didn’t have the moral courage to act, I don’t think we should forget their other qualities. Jefferson and Washington both owned slaves, and did nothing to change that. Should we forget all that these men have done for our country simply for that fact? I will continue to hold Robert E. Lee in a form of reverence, as I have for quite some time now.
By the way, Waldo, yes. You are correct in stating that many Confederates fought in the war over slavery. However, it has been estimated by experts that only 5% or so of those who fought in the Civil War owned slaves. So while it was a factor to many, it clearly couldn’t have been the most important.
I can understand those who embrace the Confederate flag for reasons of cultural pride. One of the few demographic groups in the United States it’s PC to stereotype negatively is white Southerners. I view the defense of the flag as an in-your-face pushback — a figurative middle-fingered salute to liberal elites. The more they agitate to get rid of the flag, the more tenaciously people defend it.
But I would argue that, as Virginians, we have a much better flag to display — the Virginian flag. Motto: Sic Semper Tyrannis… Thus Always to Tyrants. That does a much better job of expressing my value system.
The virginia flag is awesome, for many obvious reasons.
Great post, Shaun. This is the first time I’ve ever wholeheartedly agreed with something you’ve written! (And thanks to Waldo for his aggregator, incouraging me to add more conservative blogs to my RSS feed every day.)
Wow – Virginia progressives and conservatives agreeing on something. What’s next? Dogs and cats together? Jonathan Mark and Jim Moran becoming pals? Bob Marshall donating to Planned Parenthood? A sensible budget deal out of the General Assembly? We can only hope.
Oops…how mortifying! I meant “encouraging”, not “in-”, of course.
VC, would you agree that Virginia’s flag is well-endowed with awesomeness?
Let us not forget that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the North:
“Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, … order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States”
General Grant still owned slaves when the War of Northern Agression was over. Lincoln freed the slaves as a political move because he was losing support in 1863, not because of some moral high ground. The Emancipation Proclamation also states that slaves were not freed in Certain Counties, Including Princess Anne County, Virginia (now Virginia Beach)York, Accomack among others. Why? Because the Union controlled those areas. It states that in those areas
“are left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued”
People forget thses facts when they are arguing against the Confederate Flag and southerners as the only people to have defended slavery. I did have 4 great great grandfathers who fought for the South, none of them owned slaves, they weren’t that rich. If you were rich enough to own slaves, more than likely you didn’t have to fight in the war. As Jefferson Davis said “We’re fighting because you’re down here”
Let us not forget that the Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the North:
“Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, … order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States”
General Grant still owned slaves when the War of Northern Agression was over. Lincoln freed the slaves as a political move because he was losing support in 1863, not because of some moral high ground. The Emancipation Proclamation also states that slaves were not freed in Certain Counties, Including Princess Anne County, Virginia (now Virginia Beach)York, Accomack among others. Why? Because the Union controlled those areas. It states that in those areas
“are left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued”
People forget thses facts when they are arguing against the Confederate Flag and southerners as the only people to have defended slavery. I did have 4 great great grandfathers who fought for the South, none of them owned slaves, they weren’t that rich. If you were rich enough to own slaves, more than likely you didn’t have to fight in the war. As Jefferson Davis said “We’re fighting because you’re down here”
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