- comment
James E. Martin - body
- I loved the book and I loved the movie. Other than some of its fictional references, it contains alot of thought provoking questions about the EXTREME hypocrisy of the Catholic Church.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- Would you care to expand on just precisely what aspects of Catholicism you find to be so EXTREME?
You can't just make an argument without citing an example!
- comment James E. Martin
- body
- Love for All: Kill the Muslims
Love for All: Persecute the Gays
Support Human Life: Encourage Abortion (no support for Birth Control)
Support Human Life: Encourage Men and Women with aids to reproduce
Support Tradition: Re-write History
Support Tradition: Unless it means giving women equal rights (like making them priests).
- comment James E. Martin
- body
- Love for All: Kill the Muslims
Love for All: Persecute the Gays
Support Human Life: Encourage Abortion (no support for Birth Control)
Support Human Life: Encourage Men and Women with aids to reproduce
Support Tradition: Re-write History
Support Tradition: Unless it means giving women equal rights (like making them priests).
- comment Mark Gardner
- body
- Sometimes ignorance is bliss. In James’ case it is a travesty. Or is that post a joke, I’m just not sure.
Love for All: Kill the Muslims – Anything to support this?
Love for All: Persecute the Gays – Love the sinner had the sin. Dissaproving of an immoral act is not persecution
Support Human Life: Encourage Abortion (no support for Birth Control) Who is supporting Abortion? I know I’ve been busy at work, but this one totally slipped by me.
Support Human Life: Encourage Men and Women with aids to reproduce – Again – Huh?
Support Tradition: Re-write History – Facts Please. Or at least a blasphemous example.
Support Tradition: Unless it means giving women equal rights (like making them priests). I’m pretty sure the Church doesn’t sanction women priest. They are supporting Tradition. There are “rights” in the Church. There are rules which all faithful should follow AND understand why they are that way.
Please clarify this dribble above.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- I'm actually quite offended anyone but the most jaded anti-Catholic would associate the Church with that list, James.
Are you sure you're Catholic anymore?
- comment James E. Martin
- body
- I am not anti-Muslim, anti-diversity, and anti-life like Benedict and the current leaders of Catholic Church. Catholic means universal, so yes i am a Catholic.
- comment Shaun Kenney
- body
- The Catholic Church isn't diverse?
The Catholic Church is anti-life?
The Catholic Church is anti-Muslim?
What the hell are they teaching at Bishop O'Connell?????
I know you don't believe a single word of that, so I'm not even going to venture to take you seriously. Still, the lack of specifics tells us all we need to know. :)
- comment James E. Martin
- body
- 1) No Birth Control
2) Being Gay is Immoral
3) Killing Hundreds of thousands of innocent people because of their religion is ok.
4) Enabling the holocaust.
The leadership of the Catholic Church doesn’t get it... We need another PVI to straighten them out to real Catholic beliefs (like accepting gays for who they born as)
- comment Mark Gardner
- body
- I didn't know you could fit such offensive and hypocritical lies in one statement.
You might want to be Catholic, but you are doing a very poor job at following your faith. I suggest you actually study your faith— instead of demanding that the very tenants of God’s law be rewritten every generation to accommodate our hedonistic lifestyles.
Back in 2005 “Pope Benedict XVI met Monday with members of the Muslim community, assuring them the church wanted to continue building “bridges of friendship” that he said could foster peace in the world.” – Do you have any evidence that the Church is Anti-Muslim?
Anti-diversity?? Do you mean drawing a blind eye to the grave sins against the soul? I guess the Church should stand up for Adultery as well. What’s wrong with cheating on your wife, especially if you don’t feel in love anymore?
Anti-life?? HUH?? If you seriously think the Church and B16 are against life, either you’ve had your head in the sand for the past decade or you are so Anti-Catholic it’s disturbing.
Catholic might mean universal, but that doesn’t mean its accepting of everything. There are grave sins. God and the Church accept everyone, even those who continue to defy God’s laws, yet strives to help them rebuild and renew themselves. But that does not mean condoning a sinful life.
- comment Mark Gardner
- body
- 1) No Birth Control
In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.
2) Being Gay is Immoral
Being Gay is not immoral, pursuing a gay lifestyle is immoral.
3) Killing Hundreds of thousands of innocent people because of their religion is ok.
HUH?
4) Enabling the holocaust.
Ignorance at Best.
You are Dan Browns target audience. Brains of mush ready to believe anything without supporting facts. Go read some actual documents, understand what the Church teaches and why they teach it.
- comment Riley, Not O'Reilly
- body
- Sounds like James would be a perfect fit to attend a Jesuit college. ;)
My wife and I watched a show on the History Channel last month that investigated the claims made in the DaVinci code and they even did DNA testing on the remains of an ancient French queen who was supposed to be of the line. They compared her DNA to that of today's members of the community where Jesus and Mary Magdalene lived 2000 years ago. Needless to say, the French queen did not have any of the expected Middle Eastern genetic markers that would have appeared had she been who Brown claimed.
Bottom line -- it was a work of fiction and a not very original one at that. (Watch the season 2 episode of Millennium called "Amnesis" if you want better fiction on the subject.)
- comment Mike
- body
- James,
You are a student at a Catholic School??? Whoah!
1) Interesting little note ... both Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI decried military actions against Iraq and Lebanon in the Middle East. Ben. XVI actually condemned Israel's response to Hizbollah. "Kill the Muslims"???
If you're speaking historically, perhaps you should read up on the history of the fez, which is that funny little red hat from Fez Morocco (and worn by the Shriners, who drive those little cars in parades). It's a traditional red hat worn to comemmorate the slaughter of christians in Fez Morocco ... it's red because the Muslims dipped their hats in the rivers of christian blood that flowed in the streets.
2) Homosexuality is no more a natural state of being than pedophilia, kleptomania, pyromania, or any other such extreme tendency towards vice. Furthermore, the act of homosexuality is one of the sins against nature "which cries to Heaven for vengeance". That's scriptural, so if you have a problem with that ... take it up with God, not the Church.
3) You cannot imply that the Catholic Church is encouraging abortion by banning Birth Control. That's like saying that the Church is encouraging murder by banning duels. An immoral act is an act that is intrinsically wrong, regardless of the spin or circumstances. Truth is and non-truth is not. You're comparing apples and oranges.
4) Your assertion regarding Aids doesn't even make any sense ... please clarify.
5) In which way does the Church support Tradition and re-write history? Which traditions are you talking about, and what history has been rewritten?
6) Women can never become priests, regardless of who seems to give the authority. It is a metaphysical impossibility, and no amount of political correctness can change that.
- comment James E. Martin
- body
- "Homosexuality is no more a natural state of being than pedophilia, kleptomania, pyromania, or any other such extreme tendency towards vice."
Mike: With all due respect, if you weren't trying to be funny... well than you’re a bit of what we call… a bigot. Whether Homosexuality is psychological or genetic (as most research and studies suggests), it doesn’t change the fact that God made them gay and we should accept them as well of their behavior (to compare the love of those who are gay to pedophilia… is sick and ill-informed at best).
And… I went to a Catholic High School (with nuns) and when we had a mock election, ‘Hitler’ got more votes than Kaine (85 Kilgore, 10 Potts, 3 ‘Hitler’ write-in, 2 Kaine). Anyway, I knew only one person in the school who did not fully approve of the ‘gay lifestyle’ and easily 90% of us believed that gay marriage is an inherent right.
- comment art (kenney 3.0)
- body
- "it doesn’t change the fact that God made them gay and we should accept them as well of their behavior"
Two problems here. First, scientists have not proven it to be genetic. Science is as divided on this topic as everyone else is. There are those who think it is genetic and those who think it is social.
It is interesting that the arguement for homosexuality being a gene is an almost unassailable arguement. How can it be disproved? Those who support it will simply say that more research need be done.
Second, are we going to use the "God made it" srguement for everything. I throw a rock at you and hit you in the head. Don't blame me, God made me that way. In fact, He made the rock. And He made the EM force that makes the rock actually hit you. He also made you genetically predispossed to feeling pain and bleeding. God did it. No responsibility here, it all the Big Guy.
- comment Mike
- body
- James,
I wasn't trying to be funny. Call me anything you like, the fact of the matter is that all human behavior involves making choices through the act of the will. As such, all choices are moral choices (either acts towards that which is good or acts towards that which is evil). There are no morally neutral acts. All sexual acts involve the making of choices through the act of the free will. If there is only one God, and His moral Law is absolute (for it MUST be absolute, else He who created the natural and moral Law contradicts Himself, therefore making Him a liar), then the acts regarding homosexuality are either morally good or morally evil. If you are Catholic, then you must believe that the Catholic Church's teachings are unchangable, and that Holy Scripture is without error. With that in mind, you must then also know that Homosexuality has been condemned by both God in Holy Schriptur and through His church. We all have tendencies towards some vice ... some have a weakness for drink, while others have a weakness for women. Some have a weakness for wrath, some for greed, some for food ... whatever the weakness, we ALL have a free will choice to either comply with our weaknesses or with the moral law (God's Will). Unless you wish to argue that homosexuals have no free will, you must admit that they are free to choose evil or good. Do you deny the condemnations of homosexuality by both the Catholic Church and Scripture? If you do not, then you must admit that homosexuals are engaging in free-will acts that are morally evil. There is no other choice.
16 Comments:
You can't just make an argument without citing an example!
Love for All: Persecute the Gays
Support Human Life: Encourage Abortion (no support for Birth Control)
Support Human Life: Encourage Men and Women with aids to reproduce
Support Tradition: Re-write History
Support Tradition: Unless it means giving women equal rights (like making them priests).
Love for All: Persecute the Gays
Support Human Life: Encourage Abortion (no support for Birth Control)
Support Human Life: Encourage Men and Women with aids to reproduce
Support Tradition: Re-write History
Support Tradition: Unless it means giving women equal rights (like making them priests).
Love for All: Kill the Muslims – Anything to support this?
Love for All: Persecute the Gays – Love the sinner had the sin. Dissaproving of an immoral act is not persecution
Support Human Life: Encourage Abortion (no support for Birth Control) Who is supporting Abortion? I know I’ve been busy at work, but this one totally slipped by me.
Support Human Life: Encourage Men and Women with aids to reproduce – Again – Huh?
Support Tradition: Re-write History – Facts Please. Or at least a blasphemous example.
Support Tradition: Unless it means giving women equal rights (like making them priests). I’m pretty sure the Church doesn’t sanction women priest. They are supporting Tradition. There are “rights” in the Church. There are rules which all faithful should follow AND understand why they are that way.
Please clarify this dribble above.
Are you sure you're Catholic anymore?
The Catholic Church is anti-life?
The Catholic Church is anti-Muslim?
What the hell are they teaching at Bishop O'Connell?????
I know you don't believe a single word of that, so I'm not even going to venture to take you seriously. Still, the lack of specifics tells us all we need to know. :)
2) Being Gay is Immoral
3) Killing Hundreds of thousands of innocent people because of their religion is ok.
4) Enabling the holocaust.
The leadership of the Catholic Church doesn’t get it... We need another PVI to straighten them out to real Catholic beliefs (like accepting gays for who they born as)
You might want to be Catholic, but you are doing a very poor job at following your faith. I suggest you actually study your faith— instead of demanding that the very tenants of God’s law be rewritten every generation to accommodate our hedonistic lifestyles.
Back in 2005 “Pope Benedict XVI met Monday with members of the Muslim community, assuring them the church wanted to continue building “bridges of friendship” that he said could foster peace in the world.” – Do you have any evidence that the Church is Anti-Muslim?
Anti-diversity?? Do you mean drawing a blind eye to the grave sins against the soul? I guess the Church should stand up for Adultery as well. What’s wrong with cheating on your wife, especially if you don’t feel in love anymore?
Anti-life?? HUH?? If you seriously think the Church and B16 are against life, either you’ve had your head in the sand for the past decade or you are so Anti-Catholic it’s disturbing.
Catholic might mean universal, but that doesn’t mean its accepting of everything. There are grave sins. God and the Church accept everyone, even those who continue to defy God’s laws, yet strives to help them rebuild and renew themselves. But that does not mean condoning a sinful life.
In 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.
2) Being Gay is Immoral
Being Gay is not immoral, pursuing a gay lifestyle is immoral.
3) Killing Hundreds of thousands of innocent people because of their religion is ok.
HUH?
4) Enabling the holocaust.
Ignorance at Best.
You are Dan Browns target audience. Brains of mush ready to believe anything without supporting facts. Go read some actual documents, understand what the Church teaches and why they teach it.
My wife and I watched a show on the History Channel last month that investigated the claims made in the DaVinci code and they even did DNA testing on the remains of an ancient French queen who was supposed to be of the line. They compared her DNA to that of today's members of the community where Jesus and Mary Magdalene lived 2000 years ago. Needless to say, the French queen did not have any of the expected Middle Eastern genetic markers that would have appeared had she been who Brown claimed.
Bottom line -- it was a work of fiction and a not very original one at that. (Watch the season 2 episode of Millennium called "Amnesis" if you want better fiction on the subject.)
You are a student at a Catholic School??? Whoah!
1) Interesting little note ... both Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI decried military actions against Iraq and Lebanon in the Middle East. Ben. XVI actually condemned Israel's response to Hizbollah. "Kill the Muslims"???
If you're speaking historically, perhaps you should read up on the history of the fez, which is that funny little red hat from Fez Morocco (and worn by the Shriners, who drive those little cars in parades). It's a traditional red hat worn to comemmorate the slaughter of christians in Fez Morocco ... it's red because the Muslims dipped their hats in the rivers of christian blood that flowed in the streets.
2) Homosexuality is no more a natural state of being than pedophilia, kleptomania, pyromania, or any other such extreme tendency towards vice. Furthermore, the act of homosexuality is one of the sins against nature "which cries to Heaven for vengeance". That's scriptural, so if you have a problem with that ... take it up with God, not the Church.
3) You cannot imply that the Catholic Church is encouraging abortion by banning Birth Control. That's like saying that the Church is encouraging murder by banning duels. An immoral act is an act that is intrinsically wrong, regardless of the spin or circumstances. Truth is and non-truth is not. You're comparing apples and oranges.
4) Your assertion regarding Aids doesn't even make any sense ... please clarify.
5) In which way does the Church support Tradition and re-write history? Which traditions are you talking about, and what history has been rewritten?
6) Women can never become priests, regardless of who seems to give the authority. It is a metaphysical impossibility, and no amount of political correctness can change that.
Mike: With all due respect, if you weren't trying to be funny... well than you’re a bit of what we call… a bigot. Whether Homosexuality is psychological or genetic (as most research and studies suggests), it doesn’t change the fact that God made them gay and we should accept them as well of their behavior (to compare the love of those who are gay to pedophilia… is sick and ill-informed at best).
And… I went to a Catholic High School (with nuns) and when we had a mock election, ‘Hitler’ got more votes than Kaine (85 Kilgore, 10 Potts, 3 ‘Hitler’ write-in, 2 Kaine). Anyway, I knew only one person in the school who did not fully approve of the ‘gay lifestyle’ and easily 90% of us believed that gay marriage is an inherent right.
Two problems here. First, scientists have not proven it to be genetic. Science is as divided on this topic as everyone else is. There are those who think it is genetic and those who think it is social.
It is interesting that the arguement for homosexuality being a gene is an almost unassailable arguement. How can it be disproved? Those who support it will simply say that more research need be done.
Second, are we going to use the "God made it" srguement for everything. I throw a rock at you and hit you in the head. Don't blame me, God made me that way. In fact, He made the rock. And He made the EM force that makes the rock actually hit you. He also made you genetically predispossed to feeling pain and bleeding. God did it. No responsibility here, it all the Big Guy.
I wasn't trying to be funny. Call me anything you like, the fact of the matter is that all human behavior involves making choices through the act of the will. As such, all choices are moral choices (either acts towards that which is good or acts towards that which is evil). There are no morally neutral acts. All sexual acts involve the making of choices through the act of the free will. If there is only one God, and His moral Law is absolute (for it MUST be absolute, else He who created the natural and moral Law contradicts Himself, therefore making Him a liar), then the acts regarding homosexuality are either morally good or morally evil. If you are Catholic, then you must believe that the Catholic Church's teachings are unchangable, and that Holy Scripture is without error. With that in mind, you must then also know that Homosexuality has been condemned by both God in Holy Schriptur and through His church. We all have tendencies towards some vice ... some have a weakness for drink, while others have a weakness for women. Some have a weakness for wrath, some for greed, some for food ... whatever the weakness, we ALL have a free will choice to either comply with our weaknesses or with the moral law (God's Will). Unless you wish to argue that homosexuals have no free will, you must admit that they are free to choose evil or good. Do you deny the condemnations of homosexuality by both the Catholic Church and Scripture? If you do not, then you must admit that homosexuals are engaging in free-will acts that are morally evil. There is no other choice.
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